2.1
Moderators: Jay2k1, DavidM, The_One
R3L!K wrote:
But a self-volley becomes detremental to the game if it is used instead of a pass to an open player in clear sight of the goal. Which is something I still see too much of.
But a powered shot becomes detremental to the game if it is used instead of a pass to an open player in clear sight of the goal.
But a pass shot becomes detremental to the game if it is used instead of a pass to an open player in clear sight of the goal.
Your thinking "teamwork". Teamwork is good. No-teamwork is bad.
See the problem? The Self volley rule doen't cure "no-teamwork" problems. It can't. There are other ways to "no-teamwork" that the rule doesn't address.
That rule won't stop all egos of course.
I'm not claiming it will.
And your point is a fair one. But to extend your logic one step further. If a self-volley is just like any other shot option then it should be brought in line with the other shot options.
Both the pass shot and the regular shot have inherent risks which makes using them against a decent keeper quite a skillfull process.
In my opinion, the self-volley used to be the easier scoring option because it was faster than a regular shot, jukes the keeper and leaves the attacker less vulnerable to any defence. This is why it was whored and this is why I believe it was necessary to reduce its effectiveness - at least in the Regular game.
I'm not claiming it will.
And your point is a fair one. But to extend your logic one step further. If a self-volley is just like any other shot option then it should be brought in line with the other shot options.
Both the pass shot and the regular shot have inherent risks which makes using them against a decent keeper quite a skillfull process.
In my opinion, the self-volley used to be the easier scoring option because it was faster than a regular shot, jukes the keeper and leaves the attacker less vulnerable to any defence. This is why it was whored and this is why I believe it was necessary to reduce its effectiveness - at least in the Regular game.
Thing is, the only person affected is the open man who wasted his time getting into a good position.
In a worst case scenario, if the situations were then reversed the players who was not passed to earlier on is gonna think, 'I may as well ego too since that guy didn't pass to me anyway.'
Any gameplay change that rewards passing play is good imo
In a worst case scenario, if the situations were then reversed the players who was not passed to earlier on is gonna think, 'I may as well ego too since that guy didn't pass to me anyway.'
Any gameplay change that rewards passing play is good imo
1) Bots will pass to you even when they shouldn't be able to.
For example after you are boosted and flying, but you press right click.
They will then pass (and the lock will be off majorly).
Sorry if it was said before
2) Regular UT2004 bots get added eventually /o\
3) If Trash = Ash as a bot, he's not in the Bot Roster
4) Thanks for the money David
For example after you are boosted and flying, but you press right click.
They will then pass (and the lock will be off majorly).
Sorry if it was said before
2) Regular UT2004 bots get added eventually /o\
3) If Trash = Ash as a bot, he's not in the Bot Roster
4) Thanks for the money David
I agree. But if the egoist is allowed to keep playing selfishly and get away with it he won't be the weakest link - and will never learn to pass. The problem will perpetuate.He's not the only man affected, the whole team is. That's the point of a team game, you live and die by your weakest link. I don't have a problem with that.
edit: By making the self-volley as effective as any other shooting option, but not more so. Egoists may spend more time considering other options.
Last edited by R3L!K on 25-08-2004 18:01, edited 1 time in total.
Powered shots have speed and the ability to use the banana, self-volleyed shots used to have more speed but no banana ability. That was always the tradeoff. Like a 95 MPH fastball versus a 85 MPH breaking ball, both have advantages depending on the keeper.
One other aspect I forgot to mention, and I'm sure Chevy (aka Post King) will back me up on this one. If I fire a shot off the crossbar or post and the goaltender dodges of position while the ball lays in front, I just want to be able to rocket that shot home without having to pick it up first and giving anyone a chance. Now that's taken out as well.
Or how about a full breakdown of situations where this supposed "ego" is good and bad...
Good:
-Above example, off any post really
-Passing for distance with more speed
-Your typical "ego" shot, one way to play a 2 on 1
-Can be used to elude a defenseman, otherwise with a selfvolley who would bother defending you if you're going to volley a slow as hell shot
Bad:
-One could argue that it lessens the amount of team work involved, but then Twigstir's arguments come into play completely... if a team truly plays like a team, this shouldn't matter as players should always do what's good for the team... if they're a good shooter and ego it and score it, hey the team got a goal. If anything this only applies in pubs cause I never saw "ego"s in a mixer or any match environment unless it was a special situation to elude defenders. But I do constantly see moves that a self-volley is not used to ego but is definitely used for a teamwork maneuver.
I can't agree with any of the arguments against self-volleys because they cover only a small portion of the picture.
One other aspect I forgot to mention, and I'm sure Chevy (aka Post King) will back me up on this one. If I fire a shot off the crossbar or post and the goaltender dodges of position while the ball lays in front, I just want to be able to rocket that shot home without having to pick it up first and giving anyone a chance. Now that's taken out as well.
Or how about a full breakdown of situations where this supposed "ego" is good and bad...
Good:
-Above example, off any post really
-Passing for distance with more speed
-Your typical "ego" shot, one way to play a 2 on 1
-Can be used to elude a defenseman, otherwise with a selfvolley who would bother defending you if you're going to volley a slow as hell shot
Bad:
-One could argue that it lessens the amount of team work involved, but then Twigstir's arguments come into play completely... if a team truly plays like a team, this shouldn't matter as players should always do what's good for the team... if they're a good shooter and ego it and score it, hey the team got a goal. If anything this only applies in pubs cause I never saw "ego"s in a mixer or any match environment unless it was a special situation to elude defenders. But I do constantly see moves that a self-volley is not used to ego but is definitely used for a teamwork maneuver.
I can't agree with any of the arguments against self-volleys because they cover only a small portion of the picture.
Wrong. Saving a shot on goal is primarily dependant on reaction time. Thus a faster shot is always more difficult to keep against.That was always the tradeoff. Like a 95 MPH fastball versus a 85 MPH breaking ball, both have advantages depending on the keeper.
The banana effect only occurs on relatively slow shots and are unlikely to fool a keeper by the reasoning above.