Word(s).

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Mighty Midget
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Post by Mighty Midget »

kewangji wrote: Excactly! I'm very interesting.

@MM:What if You Have Asyle (yes, correct me) To Sweden In Only Five Years? Then You're Part-Time Swedish!

No, that would make you a Swede-on-trial, I guess...

I sort of like the history of words and how they spread. The Celts had some words apparantly needed by the Romans. When the Romans got their sandals off to the British isles, they gave back the words to the Celts, after they had changed the meaning of the words.
Like 'kerr' (?) meaning an ox-towed cart in old Gaelic, borrowed and turned to any cart in Latin, borrowed and turned to car in English. Or so I heard.
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kewangji
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Post by kewangji »

Hey, MM, are you an m'n'm (took me 5 hours to figure that joke out. Like it!)
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Mighty Midget
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Post by Mighty Midget »

Mm.... Nope. Not as sweet, I'm afraid. Not bagged up....yet. Not in pieces.
Close, but no cigar.
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snackbar
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Post by snackbar »

There was a cool 3 or 4 part series on the education channel here not long ago. It was on the formulation of english and it's induction into to western europe and it's banning, then acceptance, etc.
It was a neato show.
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Messy
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Post by Messy »

There's a theory people's thoughts are confined by the possibilities inherent in their language (linguistic relativism).

Though I'm a bit tipsy right now, and won't go deep into subject matter; it's not true eskimoes actually have 50 different words for snow.

In fact, when you do find a language with an x amount of different words for anything it usually has a lot of different (subtle) implications.

Think about the difference between laughing, chuckling, giggling etc.

A list of interesting links (I should get back to this when sober):
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eskimo_words_for_snow
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sapir-Whorf_Hypothesis
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snackbar
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Post by snackbar »

have a few more drinks and then explain. it will be clearer then.
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Mighty Midget
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Post by Mighty Midget »

Messy wrote: There's a theory people's thoughts are confined by the possibilities inherent in their language (linguistic relativism).

Though I'm a bit tipsy right now, and won't go deep into subject matter; it's not true eskimoes actually have 50 different words for snow.

In fact, when you do find a language with an x amount of different words for anything it usually has a lot of different (subtle) implications.

Think about the difference between laughing, chuckling, giggling etc.

A list of interesting links (I should get back to this when sober):
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eskimo_words_for_snow
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sapir-Whorf_Hypothesis


I think that was what Kew was aiming at. You see, in English there's few words for different kinds of snow, because it's not deemed important. To Inuits, however it could be crucial. They need all those different words for different kinds of snow. Maybe the English need shedloads of words for laughing... I don't know.

It wouldn't make sense to have 50 words having the exact same meaning. So I think it it goes without saying that those words for snow are for different kinds of snow.

Kew: 1 - Messy: 1
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Messy
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Post by Messy »

snackbar wrote: its "eskimos" ya silly swede.


It's "Inuit" you knowledgeable Canadian ;)
Mighty Midget wrote: I find this thread interesting if it would show how languages develope according to need.

I heard that Irish Gaelic has a lot of words for death and dying. Must have been an important pastime...:D


I agree, that's very interesting :D I've actually been reading about this more and more (next to my interest for etymology, which doesn't really explain the motivation for the existence of a word; rather just where it came from) since an 'ask Yahoo!' article about the same example kewangji brought forth here (as in, the Inuit-example).

The evolution of language is interesting because we ourselves shape it, but it's a collective thing; so we can't really consciously design it by ourselves.
Somehow specific needs for more and more words and subtleties between similar words arise. Regardless of how the word comes to be (hereby largely leaving out the science of etymology and the beauty of the bow-wow theory :D) it's interesting to see that indeed - for example - warrior societies have (had) an interesting amount of words for killing, etc. Think also of japanese: because it's culture has developed in relatively solitary confinement for a long time, it has a lot of words that stand by itself and are relatively unique.
Think of 'harakiri', 'kamikaze' and 'tsunami'.

Also interesting are languages like sanskrit, where one word can have very different, relatively complex meanings (when you translate it), but they are all connected in at least a symbolical way when you look at all of them together.
The word kundalini is usually translated as either 'coiled up' or 'coiled up like a snake', but it holds a lot of other meanings. Direct translations however, usually do contain a serpent nature, which brings us to the symbolical connection of all of this:
Whether you translate it as a (serpent) power, as anything coiled up or, as we usually do, as some kind of revelation or altered state of consciousness: it all has to do with unraveling the complex mysteries of our consciousness, unconsciousness and perhaps the world.

Now, as you can see, a culture like ours that hasn't had to do with meditation and such (in a similar way) as the cultures where Sanskrit has most of it's influence 1, has great difficulties finding words to describe this one Sanskrit term.

What makes language interesting to me, is that the way languages have evolved in certain areas can say a lot about what and who have been important in their culture, and of their general worldview. To me, language is not only a means of communication, but it also provides a mirror of philosophy (and provides at the same time - see also the Safir-Whorf Hypothesis there :D - many roadblocks for it).

1= (it is to India and Southeast Asia as Latin and Greek are to Europe, though it has also had a very important influence on languages such as Dutch and German)
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Mighty Midget
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Post by Mighty Midget »

WOW! You really dug into those books, didn't you ;D I'm more like a 'pick up bits and pieces' kind of guy. But yes, language as a gauge on cultural and social influences is very interesting. Imagine a globe with coloured splotches representing languages, and those splodges spreading and mixing as people moved around. You can visualize humanity spreading out from Africa and SW Asia. Kind of like a cartoon movie.
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Messy
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Post by Messy »

I just always wondered how they got to Australia so early :(
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Mighty Midget
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Post by Mighty Midget »

Well, Däneken would suggest that they hitched a ride with a UFO, but I'm not so sure :D Anyway, early? We know very little of what actually made these people setting sail for/swim to (hell if I know) the unknown shores. Time: One thousand years is a heck of a long time. 10.000 years even longer. A 100.000 years, now that would get you where you needed to go. When did they leave their 'homeland' for Australia? We don't know when they started or how long it took for them to get there. We can guess, but guesswork is, and will always be guesswork.
What did the world look like when they went out? Were there volcanic islands along the way as 'pitstops'?
Last edited by Mighty Midget on 18-06-2006 11:50, edited 1 time in total.
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kewangji
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Post by kewangji »

UFO, eyy? I have a really great scientific theory based on panspermi-theories. But it won't fit in here ...
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Mighty Midget
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Post by Mighty Midget »

Well, you're Swedish aren't you? I believe there was a Swede that were the hard core advocate for pansperm theories.
BunnyS
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Post by BunnyS »

Here's my two cents (American idiom) ;)

Most of the things already said are interesting and indeed true. This is just a passing thought really, but it relates back to something I have written before. Alot of the evolution in language steams from cultural aspects (as Messy has said) but also some development of words come from regional accents, which in turn I believe to be a direct result of the natural surroundings. I won't go into it too much; otherwise I will be here all day :)

But quick example: You have a Scottish Man and a South American woman, obviously with different accents. The characteristics of a Scottish accent are generally, the pitch goes up and down throughout each sentence and the pace is often quite fast. South American accent opposes the Scottish as the pitch is more mono tone and the pace is much slower, words are dragged out more.
The theory basically is this, in Scotland you have the highlands and it's cold, which if you think about it could explain the characteristics of the accent. Same with South America where you have longer flat plains and it's hot, everything becomes slower and ...etc

Then from that, certain words end up being changed with pronunciation within accents, which in some cases develop into new words. Some words more official then others, something to think about anyway !
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Post by beefsack »

the internet has thousands of words for mindless spammers on forums kewangji? ban kthx
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