clan matches

DI · Post by DI » 24-07-2006 01:47

As far as I know, there are many differences between a clan vs pickup match and a normal pickup one (ex : 5 vs 5 mixed).
Imo, those clan vs pu aren't helpfull for the db community but they kinda help a clan to grow...But it's the only good reason they have to be played.
There are more good reasons to play mixed pickups to make the community grow:
1) they make players know each other
2) lot of players will play those more willingly, cause they are less frustrating
3) teams will be more balanced, that helps newbies to improve (instead of ruining the match 'cause they are the weak link)
4) captains gotta know the best players for their own team, picking requires a good strategy ( and, still, make it funnier ).

do u agree/disagree? Let me know...Imo those clan pus kill db.

Post by **DavidM** » 24-07-2006 02:24

it sure is frustrating to play against a clan, with a messy bunch.
but if you have a clan...why bother playing with a messy bunch?
i rather dont play at all then.
go get your liquidz asses up and play vs the other teams

and i sure enjoy pure clan matches a lot more.

but whatever it is....i prefer playing with my guys. that makes the game fun. a random bunch of players isnt fun to play with.

Ker]v[et · Post by **Ker]v[et** » 24-07-2006 08:26

@DavidM DI aint in Liquidz anymore

@DI

contra to 1) motivates PUplayers to join/creat a clan - they see how games with a team can be -

contra to 2) Clans are surley beatable on PU's (ok but rarely) which is very motivating for them but mainly i agree with you@ often frustrating (aX got 2 times beaten by a PU team saturday :p )

contra to 3) there are no newbies (fact), also often mixed PU's are not balanced

contra to 4): experienced captains should try to not make it unfair. its so easy as it sounds. Btw a big misstake i see often is when captains choose (in theire opinion) good players instead of players that can play well together^^

Clan PU's dont kill DB at all, okay sometimes they block the possibility for a 10'er Pickup but thats all imo. Your facts are not more positive then the contras

Nero · Post by **Nero** » 24-07-2006 16:17

I have to totally agree with Kermet. It really depends on the clan and on the PU team if the match becomes one-sided.
The same is about picking. If one captain knows the people and one doesn't it surely will become unbalanced. One mistake I often see is starting with choosing a defender/keeper. If you do this you'll have a rather strong attack against you. The only reason for starting with a keeper is, if the 2 keepers who added are very different concerning their skill.

Messy · Post by **Messy** » 24-07-2006 18:19

DavidM wrote: messy

ps: I agree the majority of pick-ups shouldn't be ClanvsMix* when Clan is good..

As you said it helps them develop, but it can be hard for Mix because they lack a common tactic and a sense of communication, agreement and 'feeling' for eachother when compared to Clan..
..However, the difference is smaller when Clan (playing vs Mix) wouldn't be so good.

Matches like those aren't too hard for Mix, and help newer (or rusty

) clans develop (i.e. develop their tactic, a form of communication and 'feeling' for eachother etc.).

What I'm saying is that, of course a good clan shouldn't launch 5vs all the time (especially if they own two main servers in deathball..), but it should be perfectly acceptable for a newer clan to do so.

* = From now on capitalised as exemplary teams ;p seemed more clear imo

edit:

Ker]v[et wrote: contra to 4): experienced captains should try to not make it unfair. its so easy as it sounds. Btw a big misstake i see often is when captains choose (in theire opinion) good players instead of players that can play well together^^

I just really really wanted to say how much I agree with this!

Captains often create imba teams by picking only clanmates and very good players etc. (or only good attackers, lol).
Not only does this make the game less fun, but it's not even a guarantee for winning.

I've often just picked people I liked, and even though 'in theory' (Shigeru would say: "Messy you suck at picking teams") they wouldn't be the optimal team one could pick, we've often won just because the atmosphere within the team was good, people didn't bitch and they were used to playing together..

People underestimate the importance of that when you're in a match of 20 minutes!

DI · Post by DI » 25-07-2006 19:40

:p Messy and Kermet, I thought about your opinions.
Yeah, it's right. I changed my mind. To be honest, that happens maybe 'cause I like 5vs5 Mixed more and I don't like clans enough.

But since you are so good at reasoning , answer to my new question. There aren't lot of players on #dbpickup, if most of them is clanned 'cept newbies or ppl who sometimes joins it just to play a match ( 'cause public server are usually empty ),will playing clan matches make not-clanned players (newbies etc) play less db or leave it at all?
It looks like clans keep db alive but at the same time they kill it.
Think about the gap between good players and newbies. Guess how many good players would join a Clan Vs pu match when there's a newbie added who can be the weak link. Thx

Ker]v[et · Post by **Ker]v[et** » 25-07-2006 23:04

The thing is that we(or most of us) accepted that no new players are comming atm (or very rarely) I tryd alot to support new players and make it much easyer for them (like pday and stuff) but in the end i noticed that any effect is very inefficent because there are no new players. We have to wait for a new stable version utnil we can make new thougts about advertising DB and then when people comming again we can try to help them (f.example with NO VO shit pub servers) and think about Pickup situations. (more players = more clans = more clans that can play eachother and less vs. PU teams)

thats my opinion

TheBug · Post by **TheBug** » 26-07-2006 19:06

i noticed that any effect is very inefficent because there are no new players. We have to wait for a new stable version utnil we can make new thougts about advertising DB and then when people comming again we can try to help them

If there are no new players that's because old players don't WANT to play with new players (or if they do, they have a weird way of showing it imo)

You should try to work on this before advertising a new version, cause if you don't, advertising is going to be pointless ...

hi2u

Ker]v[et · Post by **Ker]v[et** » 26-07-2006 21:56

sorry but i dont think you got what i mean <_<

and btw. new players join pub's first, not PU games... but we cant force pub players/server owners to do as we would want. thats a mainprob i see for the few newbees that get scared there

Messy · Post by **Messy** » 27-07-2006 10:29

TheBug! <3

tbh one of the few players I saw that was able to adapt so quickly

I agree it's very hard for someone new to the game to fit in, but this is also because
1) DB is a team game
2) A lot of the people playing now have been doing so for years, hence the level at which deathball is played these days is very high

Tolerancy can be hard sometimes, and it is indeed sad to see some players don't seem to be able to put up with 'newbies'

ps:

Ker]v[et wrote: but we cant force pub players/server owners to do as we would want. thats a mainprob i see for the few newbees that get scared there

Yes we can

remove VO!
People will stay play it..but at least people can barge in and show them it's reg! (ps: Also a reason why I'm against kickvoting

)

Scorplex · Post by **Scorplex** » 27-07-2006 17:37

btw guys
its ofc not like clans kill the "community"

but something interesting seems to be false in the arguments of clanplayers....

davidm for example doesnt play mixes at all but does play for example linup 3vs games with skilled players like strafe against weak opponents...

such games are close to being pointless cause they arent fun (nah its not fun to win 20-5 or whatever... everyone who loves that also loves romance comedies and disney land shows)

well in 5v5 clanvxmixed games its not that unfair....
i participated various games which were won by the mixed team

anyway... i can live with 5vs games but i prefer mixed games cause i like playing with different players which makes every game kinda... fresh

GoldenGun · Post by **GoldenGun** » 27-07-2006 21:02

Scorplex wrote: ...everyone who loves that also loves romance comedies and disney land shows...

Messy · Post by **Messy** » 28-07-2006 00:05

Scorplex wrote: ...everyone who loves that also loves romance comedies and disney land shows...

Touché!

DI · Post by DI » 28-07-2006 01:21

right SCX, I completely agree with you.
And, tbh, removing VO from pub server is the best idea. If only we were able to do that with all servers, pubbers wud discover a new face of db they kinda understimate.
Hiu2

Post by **The_One** » 28-07-2006 01:31

It's a great shame any new pub players will only know vo. I wonder how many people have been put off because they thought vo = db (probably not as many as put off by the lack of people to play with I guess).

Why are you attaching your sig every time btw? Oh and run a spell checker over the text below it. ;o)