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erm... i got owned

It's all about rhetoric...These fanatics who want to kill innocent Westerners do not see themselves as terrorists, but as freedom fighters. And the same vice versa. It's just that Bin Laden and Bush use different terminology and reasons to justify killing other people. It's a sad world we live in, but man killing man is something that's been going on since our primate decendents roamed the earth...

Cenotaph wrote: EDIT: thou i can understand y sum ppl see americans as terrorist, but it just not my opinion... americans rarely attack civilian targets, and when they do, they are the first to condemn it... of course, many ppl died in Iraq, but lets not talk about that, k? its a fact that many civilians die in wars, sumtimes its just impossible to avoid it.

I saw this 1 scene on the telly that truly made me see how cruel war is. An eu-reporter was walking down the streets in Bagdad, when suddenly there were gunshots somewhere. 2 secs later the 3 men who were walking just ahead of the reporter lay dead or mortally wounded on the ground. What happened? The Americans were patrolling the neigbourhood, some iraqi's shot at them from a window, the Americans were 'confused' and shot at the first group of men they saw....I'm not blaming Americans, but that was the 1 scene that me me dispise war.

Sixty wrote: 3 words: Hiroshima, Nagasaki.....civillians

3 more

World
War
Two...

Unless you put 2, in which case 2 words and a number.

Not *their* fault the Japs decided to do an unprovoked attack on INNOCENT people in ships at pearl harbour, is it?

It doesnt matter where they drop, everyones innocent till they put up a gun and shoot back - how'd you know wanna-be pilots wouldnt have came from there?

..unless it was 100% Farm land

I saw this 1 scene on the telly that truly made me see how cruel war is. An eu-reporter was walking down the streets in Bagdad, when suddenly there were gunshots somewhere. 2 secs later the 3 men who were walking just ahead of the reporter lay dead or mortally wounded on the ground. What happened? The Americans were patrolling the neigbourhood, some iraqi's shot at them from a window, the Americans were 'confused' and shot at the first group of men they saw....I'm not blaming Americans, but that was the 1 scene that me me dispise war.

Ok... so instead of hittin the deck when they hear gunshots, the keep walking toward the americans who are under fire?

SMART

Didnt deserve it, no, but they cudda done something better than stand there/walk toward em...

Besides, how many British troops have been killed by friendly fire? lots - why are they not civilians? they didnt ask to be shot by their 'allies'. The Americans ARENT terrorists. If they did everything that was "good" there would be no world to live in. Can i prove it? no - is it bad now? Yes - fear widespread despite Coallition forces keeping the peace home and abroad.

War is unavoidable - it's in human nature to strive for something better - when you head a country you strive to make your country better.

Be it Hitler wanting my labensraum, the old british empire enslaving the blacks, Saddam wanting to take over Kuwait to George Bush and Tony Blair trying to eliminate terrorism.

If this war wasnt going on, god knows where we'd be now.

Put it this way: say they did nothing. Say Bush never even got into office.

So Americas there, 11/9 happens, what they do? No war? Ok.. fair enough. few years later Saddam finally gets more power in the Middle East, taking over neighbouring countries, sound familiar?

Except this time, he has links to and the ability to get WMD from Afghanistan (another WiP for the coalltion) or Korea... Libya.. all over the place. So what do we do? Sit back and let him threaten us with WMD if we try and stop him?

Meanwhile Bin Ladens been planning to destroy every government in the west...

We'd be in the shit, sure, it probably wouldnt happen like that - but war is the first step to peace.

And to conclude:

That post makes little sense when ya read it, but if you were my English teacher for Manor - you'd understand it ... and you'd be an incredly fit 22yr old Ms Bryan... but anyway

...Stuck-up conservative bastards

Jr using Saddam as an example is both flawed and incorrect. The US and UK put him there, hoping, in part for a Puppet goverment. The Iraqi people never choose him - he was OUR mistake.

And what about Isreal ? UK supports USA who support Isreal. I'd like to see what US would do if more technologically advanced Arab nation started bullying a less advanced non-arab nation. Send them more weapons probably.

Hitler was OUR mistake, too, whats your point?

Superpowers cant turn a blind eye to the world.

Robotojon wrote: And what about Isreal ? UK supports USA who support Isreal.

Given the recent events surrounding Hamas, it's gonna be interesting to see how much longer they will have our support there. Jack Straw condemned the attack, the US gvmt condoned it.

The way I see it, Ariel Sharon is going to be dead with the year because of this...

I would just like to point out that America is only in Iraq for its oil. Iraq have one of the biggest oil pipe lines in the world and America needed an excuse to try and get near it. Also they want to be near Isreal so they can help them out just that extra bit more. And another reason I beleive is so they can keep an eye on neibouring countries like Iran and so on who have "terrorists" like hezbullah ect. Americas reasons for being there are wrong and they know it is! how many months have they been there?? nearly a year am I right?? and wtf have they done there?? NOTHING! It is the Iraqis who are rebuilding their houses... who are putting up the electricity mains... the big lines that travel from city to city... yeah the Iraqi civilians!

(sorry) another thing that I would like to point out is that Isreal only get help because the Isreal government is zionist and so is the America government... you see they are all good bum chums... I would seriously like to see some attack made on both governments and I would seriously like to see Arial the little mermaid (arial sharron) dead...

Also picking up from what Robotojon said... the iraqis never had a chance to choose who they wanted... they where thrown with some guy who hated shias... the reason?? because America wanted a puppit there and also to cripple the shias. WHY I ask... WHY in gods name did they give Iraq a monster who would kill millions of shias... All this blood is on Americas governments hands and the hands of the people who actually carried this out.

Another thing you people might like to know if you actually didnt. Osama was actually in the CIA if you did or didnt know that... This just shows who america has had in its government and then has let slip and has become a problem. America is ruining everyones lives for what?? because they are bastards... thats as basic as i can put it!

in response to the "omg america dropped bombs on hiroshima etc."
the Nazis were only a matter of months maybe weeks behind the USA in developing the bomb, so i would prefer the "innocent" japanese die than the Nazis dropping a bomb on England and killing thousands of "innocent" English civilians instead.

Iam English, i am proud to be English and before you blame my country and our allies (USA etc) take a look at your countries, every country has been involved in a war and every country has killed "innocent" civilians and in someones eyes your country was in the wrong.

"British by birth, English by grace of God"

Onsie once again everything is blamed on America, now i am not saying its not at all their fault but you cant blame everything that saddam done on the government.

If you give a man a car is it your fault if he runs someone over while driving it? of course its not and this is the same sort of thing but on a bigger scale. You give a man the use ofa carhe COULD abuse it. The same as in Iraq and i refuse to believe they would have put saddam in power if they knew what would follow.

BlackFlame tbh i dont know how you can say it all right for the japs to be mass murdered but its not okay for the english to be mass murdered. I am sorry but that makes you look like a dick head in my eyes. You cant just say they should die and not us cause we are better.... pfft...

"British by birth, English by grace of God" makes me think that your one of those hardcore british hoolagons ect.

And england are fools making alliances with people like America especially in the Iraq war... (in ww2 it was okay) but tony blair just licks the shit outa george bushes ass! Its stupid... really really stupid!

Onsie wrote: I would just like to point out that America is only in Iraq for its oil. Iraq have one of the biggest oil pipe lines in the world and America needed an excuse to try and get near it. Also they want to be near Isreal so they can help them out just that extra bit more. And another reason I beleive is so they can keep an eye on neibouring countries like Iran and so on who have "terrorists" like hezbullah ect. Americas reasons for being there are wrong and they know it is! how many months have they been there?? nearly a year am I right?? and wtf have they done there?? NOTHING! It is the Iraqis who are rebuilding their houses... who are putting up the electricity mains... the big lines that travel from city to city... yeah the Iraqi civilians!

the typical OIL argument, jesus, get over it.

So what? It'd be better for everyone if we had control.

1) Oil prices for us would lower
2) The money from oil wouldnt go to saddam, who would use it to buy weapons (possibly of MD)


If the coallition built the homes, they would be killed by bombers who would ruin what they just built - im sure THAT would be a great PRO-WAR argument

"We built Iraqi houses *BOOM*!"


Yes, Osama was CIA trained, big whoop.

And wow, way to go down the mature argument line Onsie, well done...

"America is ruining everyones lives for what?? because they are bastards... thats as basic as i can put it!" well put...

"but tony blair just licks the shit outa george bushes ass! Its stupid... really really stupid!" Yep, just like the quote.

I said it before

The superpowers of the world CAN'T turn a blind eye

Russia got bombed a month or so back, who gave a shit on here then? noone! Why? Cos they were right next door. Does it matter where these attacks originated? NO - it's all terrorism

Terrorism wasnt made by America, unintentionally aided yes. But history is plauged by traitors and misguided decisions.

Noone can be right 100% of the time, Bush cant be right 10% of the time, but the point it when we do something we do it for not just selfish reasons but for the good of the world, to be honest.

All this "OMG IT'S ALL ABOUT THE OIL" is bullshit.
All this "OMG AMERICA TAKING OVER THE WORLD" is just retarded
and all this "OMG! WAR IS WRONG AT ANY TIME!" is crap too.

Im not a "war" type of person, i'd live in a bomb shelter 24/7 during a war, just incase i dont hear a warning - im not one to pick a fight (IRL anyway - not In Hartlepool too - thats suicide with all these smackheads) but anti-war people are insane.

You seem to be missing the point.

Genocide and mass murder IS wrong. I wouldnt condone it at all. But Japan was a COUNTRY at war... a war they started, if we got nuked tommorrow it would be because of a war WE Started. Is this Blairs fault? No. Is it Bush's fault? No.

Who put Saddam there? If you're gunna say bush or blair, im gunna have to send you home.

Who put Osama in the CIA? Again, Bush/Blair? ... naaa.. No one man can make either decision.

So stop fucking judging todays world with that of decades ago. The world was a different place, now its a shit hole - deal with it.

Originally posted by Onsie
"British by birth, English by grace of God" makes me think that your one of those hardcore british hoolagons ect.

Not really hes proud to be English, like you are proud of what ever you are