Making db the most fun online game agian

Everything about Death Ball.

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theberkin8or
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Post by theberkin8or »

foo, i both can score ( i am happy with my current scoring ablity that isn't what i wish to change) and i know how to and can boost. The point isn't to change the number or times you score but for me i would like it to be more fun to score, right now so many shots are just instant pass shots or curve to fool the keeper shots, for me at least it isn't as much fun to score anymore and passing has lost a lot of its fun becuase of the reduced ablity to sneaky a pass right between two defenders (yes yes i know it can still be done but with the volley range how it is i think you would agree that it is considerably harder).

I don't want to change the number of goals score, the balance of D and O, or change anything to better suit my playing style, i tried to make that clear, if i didn't i am sorry. i meant to. I just want db to be more fun to play, cuz screw balance and the correct number of goals scored each game if the game isn't fun ppl aren't going to play it. btw i am not saying it isn't still fun, just want to it be more fun :)
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DavidM
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Post by DavidM »

"A substantial percentage of players who have tried Deathball will not bother to participate in a forum."

problem is that those who are happy dont complain, those who are not happy are hanging out in the forum
remember 1.4?
the less "current version sucks" threads, the better it is
there will never be threads about the current version being great
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Surge
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Post by Surge »

why not?

when 1.4 was released i remember seeing a few "1.3b rocked" threads.

also not everyone complains if you havnt noticed... i know of at least 4 SoP members that dont post here at all and they still play and dont exactly complain but dont like certain aspects of the game.

theres also a few others i can think of that a big contributors to the NA community that dont post here.

Saying blatantly that more people are happy with the game based on the ammount of feed back you get isnt at all an informed responce. If you want to see what people really think go on IRC once in a while and PM random people and ask them what they think is wrong with deathball. Most people will give you their honest opinion and i can guarente that you may only get 1 or 2 "it's perfect" from people that cant think of a better responce or couldn't give a rats ass.

Not caring and not liking are 2 completely different points. I don't like school.. i dont like how its run... i dont like my teachers but i drag there every day because i don't care cause i have to pass either way. On the other hand Deathball is an optional thing to do. People have left and more are leaving. If you havn't noticed this maybe you should play on pub servers more often.

Many players that used to play deathball frequently have stopped. From SoP alone we lost at least 6-7 guys since 1.5, i dont know if any other NA teams total player loss ammounts are as high as ours but thats 2 league 1 teams losing 3 players each and to be quite honest i dont even think were still a contending team or even in the league for that matter.

Your intentions may be good but you are doing something worng and since you probably wont even reas this far i wont waste my effort explaining how to keep people interested.
Last edited by Surge on 30-04-2003 21:20, edited 1 time in total.
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DavidM
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Post by DavidM »

*sigh*
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Surge
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Post by Surge »

^ best responce ever...
theberkin8or
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Post by theberkin8or »

davidm i am not complaining as much as i am suggesting things to make it better, i don't beleave i ever said anything "sucks", i disagree with you about the apeal of db right now. I hope i am wrong, i happen to like db and don't really see myself playing any other game half as much as i have played db, but the game has to have that asspect of fun that it had when we all first started playing, db is fine (not great but far from bad) for those that have already invested large numbers of hours into the game but db also needs to be atracting new players as well to replace the normal loss of players.
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Larc
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Post by Larc »

Re: the less "current version sucks" threads, the better it is

a different interpretation could be that more people have stopped caring about DB and have given up trying to improve it... i still think its fun and enjoy playing, maybe not as much as i once did... i'd like to see what happens when 1.7 comes out... but last night i was talking with someone, we tried to find a pub server with people on it... there were 6 people... oh wait, 2 people becuase we realized that 4 of them were bots. that was the total people playing from the server list + the ones in my favorites. sorry for playing devil's advocate, but non negative does not equal positive... (the preceeding comment in no way argues for or against any of the current mod ideas)
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DavidM
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Post by DavidM »

its just less "fun" because players are getting better, so its harder for all
i think its not DB related
Fooman
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Post by Fooman »

Try lobbing passes to teammates when you are on offense, Berk. That's pretty fun for me when I put the ball in the perfect spot and my teammate blasts it in. And for some reason some people think volley only is fun. Maybe try that. And if u still aren't having fun there's always the April Fool's version. :)
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Dum De Dum

Post by Rampart »

2.. maybe 3 points.
It isn't that hard to score if you know anything about strategy. It isn't that hard to defend if you know anything about strategy.
Contradictory. Saying both are easy is not possible. If Offense is easy, then Defense is hard. The reverse could also be said. Both, however, cannot be easy. That's not to say "it is possible to score" and "it is possible to defend" are not true statements. Those would not be contradictory statements, and would indicate a balanced game. If that was your intent, then its a decent idea to convey. If your intent was to imply that it is easy to do both, that is a fallacy. If -you- find it easy to do both, that simply means that you or your team are a standard deviation or two above everyone else. However, someone playing against you, would have a hard time defending, and a hard time offending, if your group was indeed having an easy time attacking and an easy time defending.
its just less "fun" because players are getting better, so its harder for all
i think its not DB related
Not a true fallacy, but an interesting comment. If people are not having fun, because people have become too good at the current confines of the game, it will only get worse with time. Therefore, it is logical that "DB" adapt to allow more room for variance, and thus keep the game from getting progressively worse.

On a final note... I don't really agree with the boosting comments from either side... I think both sides are a bit overly zealous in their stances. If any change were to be thought about being made, I would prefer to see a test of reduced boosting, so that the boosts aren't quite so extreme. People could still "chain boost" which would still allow an extra player (midfielder) to get back on defense, and a second extra to walk in slightly later. It is something to consider.

Note: "Chain boosting" is when more than one cannon fire is imployed to get a person to the other side of the field. There are 3 types of chain boosting.
-Double/triple boost: Two (or 3) players hit a teammate at once sending him further
-Linked Boosts: 2 players are next to each other, and once is further down field. One of the two boosts the other, who lands near the man further down field. Then one of them bosots the other.
-Traditional Chain: Three players near each other. One player may boost the other two down, but more likely, #1 gets boosted by #2, and #2 gets boosted by #3. Then, upon landing, or even in the air if they are close enough, #2 boosts #1.

In any of those cases, the first man gets back to defense quickly, and the second man is at a decent distance to run in and help defend or be an outlet.


Oh.. btw.. not really a serious suggestion... but somethign I think would be funny... in like another April Fools or something like that... To boost people, you have to run up to them and hit them with your cannon. Instead of flying, then are latched onto your cannon. and a charger slowly starts to fill. Pressing fire again at any point on the charger sends them flying. Speed/distance proportional to amount of charge. Charge scales more than speed increase, so that people who charge all the way aren't down the field at the same time of people who got quick shot... (IE, more distance, longer time from charge to arrival; Shorter distance, shorter time from charge to arrival; for a point approx 40 meters in front.) Person who is latched to be boosted can right click at any time to dislodge. "Carrier" movement is slowed to half speed while holding a teammate

Again, not really the best idea, but I thought it would be funny to look at, people holding up other people on their guns and launching them =p You could use ragdoll for the flight until they land =p

Again.. I must repeat.. that was not a serious game balance idea... (although it would be interesting) just a random thought that I thought looked funny in my imagination.
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Surge
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Post by Surge »

^ read or die

on a semi-related note, the comment you made David is partically true but obviously not accurate. If everyone was getting better games would become more competative i would like them more for i am a competative person. Our SoP defender Cormega is a VEEEERY competative person and basically joined SoP to be on a winning team when DB first came araound. Even as we speak hes retired from Db and he plays defense. I dont know why, i dont care why, but he played Defense. Nothing is frustrating on D, its become simpler from patch to patch. I think he was probably getting bored of it.

On the other end of the stick i play offense and i dont enjoy playing anymore. It was fun but games are now determined by how well a team can pass compaired to haveing 1 or 2 good shooters. The majority of goals are pass-ins and vollies. This is not how it should be. Even in football this is not the way it is. If thise were true in football every goal would be a header, or a pass to a player very close to the net for a tap in. Very few goals would be actual shots and this is obviously not true.

Football is a competative sport because it comes down to game changing moments that define the game and make it interesting. Turnovers, break aways, dekeing, smart passes... the list goes on. Deathball, if your moding to be like football, lacks far to many key elements... there are few break aways, little to no dekeing, the inability to outrun a defender. Deahtball lacks individual effort by everyone but the keeper who also has assistance by his defenders.

This is why i compair deathball to hockey. It is more like hockey than football. It has fewer people playing, tip goals, fast paced, quick shots, hitting. Everything hockey has with 1 exception. smaller nets, but, these work for deathball because of lag and obvious hitbox sizes. You'd never score with smaller nets.

Hockey like football has individual effort. Deathball lacks this. Every sport i can think of has individual effort. Removing dribble and giving defenders a bigger hammer limits the ammount of individual effort.

I basically quit playing because of lack of individual effort. Many have. This is the flaw in DB. A game with so many limited options like DB needs individual effort. I cant shoot a quick accurate wrist shot like i do in hockey or in football. I need to have other options to my disposal to use when i have the ball so score. Losing dribble did this to me. I almost quit the day i played 1.5 but i stuck in here because i figured that you may finally see that your very slowly not only killing deathball but its community.

It doesnt appear you see it the way we do, and i respect that, but i probably should have quit that night because DBs just not fun anymore.
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Alars
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Post by Alars »

ban sprinting in own pbox....
theberkin8or
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Post by theberkin8or »

i couldn't disagree with surge more... i think the team play is extremely limited right now, i don't think one player should be able to win a game, it should have to be a team game, obviously one or two players have to pull off a pretty damn good play to score but besides that it should be completely a team game with that team being made by players with strong team skill, not a team being made by one strong individual.
Last edited by theberkin8or on 01-05-2003 03:10, edited 1 time in total.
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Surge
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Post by Surge »

...but thats what was fun for me Berk.

When as a team we score that might be good and all but i used to be able to shake out the d, get a shot off, goal. All individual effort. Our team scores. Our team celebrates for 15 seconds, gets ready to do it again. No matter what there is always 5 men on the field. If 1 decides to deviate from the team play and go score whats wrong with that? isnt the idea of deathball to score?

With the current system your forced to shell the ball off to a team mate to move full speed up field. Not always a bad thing to do but this allows the defense more breathing room, time to intercept. With even 1 player covered on offense your forced to pass the ball back to a defender when in previous versions you could just dribble up, jump the D and score. I don't see any problem in doing this. It still allowed for team play but also let the "hero"s have their fun like i always did. It challenges the defense in other parts of the field besides the Pbox.

Pass shot goals were hardly ever used, vollies were scarce and shooting was the best way to score. If you see something wrong with what i just said that we may as well make all games volley only. The current system is WAY too team oriented. It doesnt allow for any individual effort besides actually shooting the ball at the net.

At the same time using individual effort was the skill in Deathball which it now lacks. 1 man going towards the net against a defender dekeing him out. This is almost impossible to do now. I like one-timing vollies more than anybody else but being forced to pass or get fragged really limits your options.

As for banning sprinting in your own Pbox this would make little to no difference. We dont play with it on over here. Sprinting was (i think) David M's way of sort of keeping dribble in Deathball but dribbling was a skill, sprinting is pressing a button. Sprinting does not let you jump over a defender. Sprinting does not let you move up field full speed with the ball without being chased by a defender also using sprint.
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Post by Rampart »

On a tangent... The coolest chain boost I ever was a part of was on lego fanin a pub. I was in my own PBox and we got the ball. I boosted the guy in front of me, and then got boosted my self. The guy in front landed after a bad hop, and I hit him with my cannon as I hopped, and he ended up moving just a few feet in front of me, I hit him forward again, and he landed in the goal. Admittedly... he got fragged upon landing, and didn't score... But it was the coolest chain of boosts ever.
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