David M's Rant

[Twigstir]

David M, The "volley only" thing is a big deal. The planned volley only mutator is a major step that is long overdue. Most of Deathball is not that hard to learn. Learning to Goal keep and to volley are more difficult. Being new and getting blasted for mistakes is discouraging. However, the whole volley only deal just multiplies the situation and makes the game worse for everyone. The mutator is badly needed and will greatly enhance the current situation.

Better AI would also be a big step. With online play the only place to learn. A noob is a noob that much longer. Remember, a lot of your skill is very much dependent on your computer system, your connection, and the server your on. Playing with lag is a pain. A good player will adjust. A newbie will just get frustrated.

All in all, I would agree with your rant. Get out that mutator as soon as you can and work on the AI. Deathball will get better.

The tutorial mode may sound good, but to be honest, it's probably not worth the time. Without better AI, the tutorial is worthless. With better AI, the tutorial probably isn't needed.

[DaJero]

The tutorial mode may sound good, but to be honest, it's probably not worth the time. Without better AI, the tutorial is worthless. With better AI, the tutorial probably isn't needed.

A tutorial cannot be replaced by bots. Bots don't explain you the rules, bots don't tell you the various tricks, bots don't tell you different strategies, bots don't tell you about all the options the game has. A tutorial will and therefore I think a tutorial is THE way to go.

[FireCell]

Yep a good well planned tutorial would be a decent idea. Maybe people could submit ideas for what should be included and any tricks they use... remembering this is only to get noobs onto their own 2 feet and onto the DB field.

[Twigstir]

A tutorial cannot be replaced by bots. Bots don't explain you the rules, bots don't tell you the various tricks, bots don't tell you different strategies, bots don't tell you about all the options the game has. A tutorial will and therefore I think a tutorial is THE way to go.

Everything you mentioned can be done with text and pictures. From David M's rant - "The tutorial should be playable, you will be taught all the things, learning by doing". People want to play. People learn by doing. That's a true statement. Problem - against what? At this point and time a tutorial has no value because there isn't a way to apply what you've been taught offline.

Once the what is solved (bots can play), what can a tutorial give you that you can't get in instant action and from a text/picture document. If you think about it, there is not a lot to deathball. Simply reading,viewing pictures, and then going into instant action (bots can play) and doing is sufficient before going online.

Strategies, true the bots can't teach you. You can learn the basics from a tutorial or text/picture document but, that online play.

How do you think most people learned UT2003? For the people who did use the tutorial, how much time did they spent on them before going into instant action? If the tutorials were 300% better, how much difference would that make?

Your talking about a big project and you have very good intentions. However, if you improve your documentation and enable instant action via good AI, I don't see a big advantage of a tutorial based on the time and effort that would be required of that project. All the time spent on the tutorial is time not spent on other projects or other parts of your livies. New maps, new style of play, next version, actualy playing the great mod you guys created... ect.

Is a tutorial a good thing? Yes. Would it be benificial? Yes. But to a small number of people who would use it for a small amount of time. It's your call of course, and you can do what ever you want. I believe you have the best intentions in mind. I just hope you take some time and think about it a little.

[Dazlin]

In the past I have shouted at noobs ALOT but abut a month ago I started to feel sorry for them because my brother started playing and lucky for me he likes to play in goal ( more shooting prac for me ) and the thing is he has learned how to be a good keep and sadly he knows all my shooting tactics and knows my hot spots (where I like to aim most at the goal) I found it really satisfying to have taut my brother to play dethball half decently and online i have helped a few n00bs with volleying and the responses have got is "wow ur really good at this how did you get so good?" and "I hope I get as good as you" which is the kind of stuff you want to hear when you have mastered the game

Daz.


BTW: DavidM said “I remember it took me 1-2 weeks to pull off an aimed volley shot, so how should they do it?” it only took me 5 days probably because I was on it non stop

[DavidM]

I'll try to design the tutorial in a way that you get in all kind of situations and got to solve them at least 3 times.
Like lessons, you know.

Only hard thing will be to learn teamplay etc (like, we dont need 5 attackers), but boosting can be taught there i hope....
well, when the design is done it's mostly coding work I guess.
depends on jero then, eh?

And I guess most players would play it!
Because the first thing you see when you load up DB is "Are you new? Play this tutorial!" or something like that

[Nemesis]

im also pissed off with this noob calling crap, espicially the other day when i was watching my little brother play who is 8 years old. He went on a server and was not told it was was volley only (which i think is fucking gay anyway) and he scores a goal and staright away he gets all these fucking nob heads shouting (omg what a lame cunt) (lame noob) (fucking retard) etc.. he didnt reply cus he didnt no wtf they was on about but i want summet done about this crap, otherwise im gonna stop him from playing cus of all teh bad language, i dont want him growing up like some of the fucking retards in this community

An Angry Nemesis.

[Dazlin]

Ughhh egos pissing me off...

A fs pX player whom will remain nameless is going around like he
is gods gift spamming that you are a noob if you don’t pass to
him that fs pwn every other team and just beat cY.red not that,
that is hard no offence to cY.red and if you call him ego he says
the person who started it has the ego what really hacks me off
is that I used to be in the same clan as him and we used to be
good buddies I duno if he has got all big headed because he has
joined a clan that can win allot of games or if he has been around
kushdi too long or it could be his age he is only 11 a
good player but with ego if he got rid of all the boasting about
pX and his ego then he would be a fun guy to play with

Daz.

[DavidM]

(as long as you dont talk about a cy13 player who will remain nameless, its ok )

[Chrisfu]

nameless will always be nameless. Until he ceases to be nameless.

[Kyllian]

There's only 2 times I'll play VO
1. Feel like it(is starting to happen more often than not lately)
2. there's a member of the clan that owns the server in the game

If I'm in a really bad mood and neither is true, I tell them to kiss my arse since they don't own the server(kinda dangerous since some clanners use aliases)
They tend to leave me be after that

[Dazlin]

(as long as you dont talk about a cy13 player who will remain nameless, its ok )

not talking about him he rox0rz at db

[TEZC-Rage]

DavidM, this tutorial is an excellent idea, i'm fed up of the n00b slagging matches, and i have often heard 'but i'm new.. thx for ruing the mod, i'm going back to (indert old mod/game here)' What will become of all the newcomers? infact what will happen to all the well known DB clans when players get tired of playing and they need to recruit new members? I normally go looking on pubs to see who's playing well and if they are good enough, but all i get is n00bs coming for 5 mins, getting flamed, and leaving deathball. It's the same with VO... what does VO prove? that you can volley the ball at the goal... wow.... now where's the teamplay? Teamplay is what i normally look for when scouting for a player. Adding simple things like basic passing tutorials, defensive tutorials, and attacking tutorials, maybe even adding (/me shudders) sprinting tutorials... What would be a godsend would be somekind of goal keeping tutorial for some newbies... they get random shots fired at them, giving a kinda training court for keepers.

[Onge]

I have made it my duty to never moan about n00bs...I remember when someone said I had just done "the worst shot ever" when I panicked in a good goal scoring opportunity. I was not happy about that and I stopped playing DB for a while. I never want to make someone unhappy and agree we should educate n00bs. One wanted to know how to boost. By boost he meant sprint but no-one else was paying him any attention. I felt good about helping him out and he appreciated my assistance. Remember people we all sucked when we started...

[DaJero]

I have made it my duty to never moan about n00bs...I remember when someone said I had just done "the worst shot ever" when I panicked in a good goal scoring opportunity. I was not happy about that and I stopped playing DB for a while. I never want to make someone unhappy and agree we should educate n00bs. One wanted to know how to boost. By boost he meant sprint but no-one else was paying him any attention. I felt good about helping him out and he appreciated my assistance. Remember people we all sucked when we started...

Agreed, if everyone had your attitudo towards noobs, what a wonderful community this would be.