Scoreboard problem

Stulovesyou · Post by **Stulovesyou** » 02-07-2003 13:06

http://members.optusnet.com.au/maybestu ... t00128.jpg

Where are they?
Please fix.

IMO - the stats on the scoreboards should complement the prior system scores. Not replace.

More stats = better than less.

note: I am a prior ngstats addict
eg I wrote this review - purely off ngstats... I like stats.. likey... alot..
http://pub29.ezboard.com/fcloutfrm6.sho ... ID=7.topic
(til epic killed them by selling to microsoft... by I digress)

The 1.6 scores were not perfect in any way. An example is here:
http://www.clandx.com/demo/frkstok_curve.jpg
Note: Armageddon was the freaks keeper... he got scored on 9 times but still was top scorer.
What does this tell you?

To the untrained eye... stat = ghey...

Armageddon
Hehe, if anyone needed proof that the current scoring system is total crap, my score is proof positive (particularly in curve)

HOWEVER

me
No that's indicative that you were goalkeeper - and had to save a lot of shots.

Team score is also very indicative of match result. It means lots of turnovers = low scores.

Possession is close'ish - but a good stat would be 'territory'. Most likely it spent the majority of the time with TOK attacking - hence keeper gets a lot of balls.

Which was true. I didn't see the match - but its easy enough to tell that freaks weren't passing well. They were turning over the ball and giving up points to the TOK players.
Note here - individual score does not mean much other than player v player (keeper v keeper for example) to show who was more active during the map.
(demolution tok keeper - not much to do = bored)
It is the team scores that mean everything. Freaks players were all down in the teens... tok up 40s / 50s above. It shows that as a team TOK outplayed Freaks player for player... hence the 9-0 result.

1.7 stats COMPLEMENT the 1.6 stats wonderfully. You could take for example Chillens -12 and disect it. Passes missed, turnovers etc.
Just showing up as small red stats on the scoreboard does not make this stand out as much as the big phat -12.

The 1.6 scores will give you an indicative knowledge of your relative position in the map. How active you were etc.

The 1.7 stats will show disect your individual game. You cannot really compare your performance to others so well.

Two attackers in 1.6 - you could see who was more active - who did more. 1.7 shows 'what' they did more.

The who 1.6 score is the 'at a glance stat' that has existed since the beginning of time in every FPS. Let's not be rid of it.

The 1.7 stats provide the depth that makes stat monkeys like myself rack up a mega screenshot collection :p

Ultimately though.... sure they all may be useless... but think of the junkys... the junky!!!

Post by **DavidM** » 02-07-2003 13:10

there is just no fair way a computer could judge how well all players do by just one stupid number, so us statwhores have to live with that \o

Stulovesyou · Post by **Stulovesyou** » 02-07-2003 13:17

It does the best it can do...

Like in UT CTF. It was not perfect... but it gave an indicative score. It didn't mean everything - but it meant 'something'.

Indicative relative postion - plus depth = good.

Note first issue though - 12 players in server - no scores / nothing... make font / scoreboard smallerer... fit them in.
12 player servers are common.

Post by **DavidM** » 02-07-2003 13:24

i have a different system in mind, you dont gain points, its just a number between 0 and 100.... the more perfect you are in all your categories the closer you get to 100

but i dunno if a cheap goal hanger noob can still become first

Post by **DavidM** » 02-07-2003 13:25

for your first pic, it only supports 10 players (you are not supposed to play with more than that anyway), but it will be rewritten and fixed

Stulovesyou · Post by **Stulovesyou** » 02-07-2003 14:21

DavidM wrote: i have a different system in mind, you dont gain points, its just a number between 0 and 100.... the more perfect you are in all your categories the closer you get to 100

but i dunno if a cheap goal hanger noob can still become first

I likey very much...

Goal hangers won't get pass stats or any other 'team stats'... so they should be far from perfect.

Score should be relative. How perfect (+ how much you've done) in comparison to everyone else. 100 impossible virtually (unless only player in server). The more you do, the higher your score goes... the lower the opposition...

ahh the possibilities..

Currently you have a sorta hidden system that is like this - ie the red = bad... which does in a small way show who is doing bad v good... Perhaps gold for 'extra good' as well...

(I think I'm getting ahead of myself...

)

Onge · Post by **Onge** » 02-07-2003 14:56

The stats are great. Period. Down with points!

Post by **DavidM** » 02-07-2003 15:00

I really dunno if goal hangers will look cheap.
I just wrote up a 2 page doc for jero, maybe he can do something out of it (the maths behind that are hard)

Passes are interlinked with ball touches. Means if you have no opportunity to pass (no touches) you will not be blamed for not passing.
I'm affraid this will not work too great for Pubs

Post by **DavidM** » 02-07-2003 15:02

Rewarding boosting is hard too...because only usefull boosts should be rewarded....I really dunno how to make this working

vF_Zonk · Post by **vF_Zonk** » 02-07-2003 15:25

Sycophant wrote: The stats are great. Period. Down with points!

points are 100% nessecary IMHO

drifter · Post by **drifter** » 02-07-2003 15:27

re: boosting:

Maybe reward if a boost results in posession (via interception) for the boosted player?

Or if the boosted player ends up leaving the attacker(s) in a non offside position, ie; boosted back so they are able to defend against the current attack (like an assist, but defensively)

Post by **DavidM** » 02-07-2003 15:28

this is way too vague
how would you reward someone for boosting someone back as defender (both have to be rewarded actually)

drifter · Post by **drifter** » 02-07-2003 15:39

The first suggestion is self explanatory and I think would work.

The second one, I didn't think so...(or I didn't explain it well)

If they are boosted back (closer to the goal than the ball) and as a result they or the team end up stopping a goal. (team possesion changes before a goal) they are rewarded.

(maybe register a shield cannon attack on the offence or interception to back it up will help eliminate any false positives)

To elaborate…

The boost takes the defender closer to their goal than the most forward attacker AND possesion then changes to their team.

It just depends on how far (how many possesion changes) you can remember in the engine to add the points.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but it makes sense to me.

Post by **DavidM** » 02-07-2003 15:41

Yeah, could work

Post by **DavidM** » 02-07-2003 15:53

I'll just paste what I have so far, it's a very vague thing, totally uncertain about the values (will require to play several matches to balance it)
and there is one big hole.....when you just stand there doing nothing, running away from the ball you get 50

So if you have an idea for a good algorithm that tells the game if a ball 'catchable' or if a player is trying to offer himself for a pass dont hesitate...

All start with 50 and can get max 100, min 0
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Goals & Missed Chances

owngoal can be compensated with 5 normal goals
1 goal can compensate 3 missed chances (maybe 3 is too low, but we'll try it)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
2nd Assist & 1st assist
2nd gets you x points, 1st gets you 2x

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Volleyintercept gets you x
Catchintercept gets you 2x

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Touches & Passes
we have to link touches to passes
So when you die without even trying a pass it should substract X
A good pass gets you +X
When you die 0.7 seconds after getting the pass don't count it at all (its the fault of the guy who passed you there, cause you were in a crappy situation)

The ratio of bad and good passes and the missed pass opportunites matter here.
One bad pass can be compensated with 4 good passes (so you dont improve with that ratio, it just stays the same)
Take care: a targetless pass or shot that 'dies' (stops moving) is not considered as pass, neither as bad pass. Just ignore these, they are neutral.
For keepers double the amount of negative x's. (They have an easy job doing good passes and when they do a fault pass the result is baaaad).
A volley-good-pass gets you double amount.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tackles
Being tackled gets you -x
Exception: You fire a shot 1 second after the tackling
Being killed gets you -2x
Exception: You score 3 seconds after that (often you shoot, get killed, ball goes in)

Tackling gets you x
Exception: Enemy fires a SHOT (no pass shot here!) 1 second after your tackling (this gets you -x for doing a bad tackling)
Killing someone gets you x
Exception: Your own team has the ball and is either in the enemy half or more than 2500 units away from own goal. Gets you -2x.
If ball is flying wait for the next player to get it until to give the point.
If own team still has it give -2x, if other team gets it give x for the kill.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Saves:
We have to judge saves differently. First failsaves:
If there is no defender 1300 units away from the goal and it's being scored against you substract x.
If ball was shot from more than 1450 units (26 meters) substract 5x.
If there is a defender 1300- units away from the goal and its being scored from less than 1450 units substract 2x.
Saves:
If You keep a ball thats shot from 2500+ units away give x
If shot from 1500-2500 units give 2x
If shot from closer than 1450 give 4x
If shot from closer than 1450 and there is no defender 1300 units away from the goal give 6x.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Boost:
Reward booster and boosted player with x if boost successful:
Successfull boost:
-When enemy has the ball and you boost a teammate back and he's closer to the goal than the ball when he lands (does not count when the ball is less than 3500 units away from the enemy goal)
-When boosted player is able to intercept ball within 5 seconds after boost
-When boosted player is able to save ball within 10 seconds after boost
-When boosted player is able to tackle enemy ball carrier within 5 seconds

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
All in all goals weigth about: 12
Assists: 8
Passes: 2
Tackles: 1
Saves: 4
Intercepts: 2
Boost: 3
Totally uncertain about that tho. Lots of testing required. I guess defenders have the best scores.